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Post by kraziexj on Mar 7, 2003 20:21:08 GMT -5
Is there anything i can do to help prepare for the KK?
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Post by rob83cj8 on Mar 7, 2003 20:35:27 GMT -5
Right now the best thing I can say is, come out and wheel, learn the trails and be a trail leader or tail gunner. Trails is one thing that you can never have to many people on. Ideally, you should have 3 positions in each trail group. Leader, rocking chair, and tail gunner, but being realistic, there'll probably be just leader and gunner and with the possibility of there being 6 or more trail groups we're looking at needing at least 12 club members that are familiar with the trails not counting the floater. I'd like to have 15 people that know the trails and would be willing to take on a group of 15 vehicles or so.
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Post by JEEPSTER2000 on Mar 8, 2003 19:37:23 GMT -5
I would not mind doin some tail gunnin. Just let me know if there is anything else i can do. -Bradey
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Post by rob83cj8 on Mar 8, 2003 20:47:02 GMT -5
Thanks guys!! I really appreciate you stepping up and volunteering to help out. Other than the trails, Phil may like some help at the registration tables, Jeremy may like some help with safety inspections, and I'm sure Manuela could use help with the BBQ. I'm also going to set up an info-booth for NOHVAD & NPLD and I could use some to help out manning that before and after the trailruns.
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Post by manhattanjeep on Mar 9, 2003 2:40:25 GMT -5
I have been thinking about safety inspections. What things are we going to look for, I mean theoretically it could take forever for one vehicle. I was thinking to check brakes, steering, seatbelts. Also are we requiring tow points for the KK? Umm, let me know if there are any other safety items that could be checked.
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Post by ihc6480 on Mar 9, 2003 8:24:15 GMT -5
If I may offer some input here: Rollbar or hardtop Fire extinquisher ( with gauge ) Parking brake or line lock At least 1 tow point F&R First aid kit Seatbelts Spare and tools to change flat Open diffs, 1 locker, fully locked depending on class Tires capable of completing course ( no baldies )
The list can go on and on but here is one that I consider a must: Must be street legal and INSURED.
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Post by rob83cj8 on Mar 9, 2003 11:22:46 GMT -5
There are some things that probably won't be checked during the safety inspection, like Jeremy said, if we go too overboard with the SI it could take hours for one vehicle. We will be making minimum requirements clear on the registration form. For example, insurance will be required, but there's a place on the registration form for ins. carrier and policy #, as long as that info is filled out I don't think we need to check it again during S.I.'s. The street legal part I can go either way on, it's kind of a catch 22, tube frame buggies can be insured but they're not necessarily street legal, as long as ins. requirements are met I don't have a problem with it. Here are my thoughts on the S.I.- Roll bar or factory hard top seatbelts for each occupant(check functionality) front and rear tow points(this may be waived for easy trail) Spare tire do a visual walk around inspection, look for obvious safety hazards, broken springs, cracked frames, unusually large puddles of fluid, cracked or broken steering components. Have them open the hood, check motor mounts, make sure the radiator is bolted in(yes, we have had folks show up to events with radiators wired in )and make sure the battery is secure, especially in Jeep CJ models, their stock battery security is minimal at best. It will be the responsibiltiy of trail leaders to make sure that the vehicles in their group are capable of the level of difficulty in their particular group. Trail class minimum requirements- Easy- stock 4x4 w/low range transfer case Moderate- 30" or larger All-Terrain tires, tow points, tow strap, at least one locker suggested, but not required. Hard- 32" or larger tires, tow points, tow strap, at least one locker required, NO OPEN DIFFS, 2 suggested, winch suggested, body damage likely This is not a be all, end all list, just my thoughts from what I've learned from working several events here. Any ideas or suggestions are more than welcome.
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Post by bluexj89 on Mar 9, 2003 12:00:54 GMT -5
I really think tow points are a must with the east group. After leading the easy group several times people with stock vehicles are expecting "gravel roads" I had a Missubushoe that got a little in over his head and dove into a mud puddle and had no where to hook a strap to on the front. beside the lower a arm or wrap the strap around his frame and hope not to damage his bumper or body. Luckily we got him out with out haveing to resort to that. He was ok with it but his wife said there was no way in hell we were going to chance damaging here Mushubushu. Just my thoughts though they may not be worth much but the easy trail will get vehicles with street tires and no ground clearance. I really think they need somewhere to hook to.
Mark
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Post by rob83cj8 on Mar 9, 2003 13:45:24 GMT -5
Well, then we need to be willing to send people home. Like I said, there's alot of "catch 22's" with an event like this. Part of the trail guides job is to not let people get in over their heads and make sure that participants understand the risks if they choose to do a particular obstacle. It's not an easy job, but to me it's one of the most rewarding.
Bottom line is, if we set vehicle standards we have to stick with them and send people away if they don't meet the standards. This equals lost revenue and bad PR. To me this is especially important with the easy group. Very few newer vehicles come euipped with tow-points and if we start sending folks away for not having them we're going to alienate alot of newbies to our sport. IMHO, newbies are the future of our sport, how bad do we want to alienate them? There's a very real possibilty of turning away over a dozen participants on the easy trail alone. That's alot of pissed off people and alot of lost revenue.
If a stock 4x4 is having difficulty on the easy trail, then the trail wasn't laid out well. A stock vehicle should be able to run the entire easy trail without spinning a tire, even if it is a street tire. The easy trail needs to be laid out so a stock SUV with 215/75/15's can do it without incident. Impossible? Not at all, I've done it with my wife's XJ when we first got it.
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Post by kraziexj on Mar 9, 2003 13:54:44 GMT -5
Here's another thought while we are on the subject.....Are we going to have some kind of paper that they have to sign that says something like "all obstacles are done at the drivers choice. blah blah. we can not be held liable in the event something were to happen." it needs to be worded so that it doesn't scare people off. or do you think that just telling them will be enough?
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Post by rob83cj8 on Mar 9, 2003 14:11:29 GMT -5
Along with the registration form there's also a liability waiver that must be signed in order for someone to participate. People will be told these things at the drivers meeting, but that means nothing from a legal stand point. There must also be a signed liability waiver, just in case of any legal actions.
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Post by bluexj89 on Mar 9, 2003 14:26:56 GMT -5
If a stock 4x4 is having difficulty on the easy trail, then the trail wasn't laid out well. A stock vehicle should be able to run the entire easy trail without spinning a tire, even if it is a street tire. The easy trail needs to be laid out so a stock SUV with 215/75/15's can do it without incident. Impossible? Not at all, I've done it with my wife's XJ when we first got it. While I think This is true it is not the trail leaders fault if the driver of said suv decides not to follow the advise of the trail leader and take the wrong line. And while this last weekend we ran the easy trail I in Blue spun tires on some of the hill climbs. A lot has to do with driver error and not the difficulty of the trail. Such as my situation yesterday and the decission of dude to dive into the hole where the trail leader went around it. And yes he was the vehicle directly behind me. And I think you know where I am talking about. I agree that you cannot turn these people away. but they should know that tow point front and rear should be the #1 mod before lift and tires. JMHO. Mark
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Post by manhattanjeep on Mar 9, 2003 15:28:05 GMT -5
Here is a thought. Could we maybe have a few tow hooks on hand, and a cordless drill to install them before the trail ride. I mean, it is something that I think everyone should have, you never know when something could go wrong, even on an easy trail, that would require towing, or just hooking to another vehicle for stability. Tow hooks are only $10, I think most people would be willing to drop the cash in order to go ahead and play. And it would only take about 5 minutes to install. Just a thought.
Jeremy
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Post by ihc6480 on Mar 9, 2003 15:37:57 GMT -5
I agree it would be a shame and lose if stock vehicles are turned away just because of tow hooks. I guess I really didn't much about that matter since I have a habit of overkill. I think each class having certain requirements will do. Signing a liability form--I agree 100%. Newbies (stock) have to learn sometime and somewhere and if they choose not to follow trail leader and get stuck then they stand the Liability of vehicle damage. I'm not sure about just because it's a easy trail all vehicles should make it without an incident thou-I think Darwins Law will rule that out.
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Post by kraziexj on Mar 9, 2003 15:40:17 GMT -5
That is a good idea but the problem is some vehicles just don't have a place to put a tow hook on like that. Ex. the unibodied cherokee. i agree with robin and mark both because we can't just turn away all those newbies like that because some of them may not even know what a 'tow point' is. but on the other hand you can't control every driver and what are you to do if they get stuck and have no tow points. i think atleast one tow point should probably be required. that way you have one way you can get them out. remember this is kansas and the weather can never be predicted.
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