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Post by rob83cj8 on Mar 9, 2003 15:54:16 GMT -5
While I think This is true it is not the trail leaders fault if the driver of said suv decides not to follow the advise of the trail leader and take the wrong line. And while this last weekend we ran the easy trail I in Blue spun tires on some of the hill climbs. A lot has to do with driver error and not the difficulty of the trail. I agree that you cannot turn these people away. but they should know that tow point front and rear should be the #1 mod before lift and tires. JMHO. Mark I agree completely. As we all know, trail conditions play a major role as well. The Frog did plenty of spinning on the easy trail yesterday due to conditions. IMHO,the most important part of the easy group is the drivers meeting. That's when risks are explained to newcomers and they're told that the trail leader will be taking the easiest lines and if they want to deviate to a harder line for more of a challenge, they are welcome to do so, but at their own risk. They will be assisted if necessary, and no one get's left behind. I completely agree that the 1st and most important mod to a 4x4 that will see some trail time is tow-points, but we know that just isn't the case. I just have a hard time making it a requirement for the easy trail, we know there'll be a few that show up with out them and I really don't want to turn anyone away unless they're a rolling safety hazard. It should be on the registration form that tow points are highly recommended for the easy trail. IMHO, whatever requirements we make, we have to stick to, and that will inevitably mean turning someone away. So how far do we want to go with requirements? Another thing trail leaders need to remember at an event is 3 tries=strap. We won't have time to let a participant have unlimited tries at an obstacle, things need to keep moving or people get bored. Bored people=no fun. This is flexible to an extent, if you have a large group, it needs to keep rolling. If you have a small group of say maybe 6 or 7 you can afford more time. I realize it can get difficult, but leaders need to pay attention to the people in their group and keep the group moving accordingly. Maybe I'm being a little anal retentive about it, but, paying attention to detail will make the difference between a good event and a great event. Personally, I want to see the Kansas Krawl grow to be the off-road event in Kansas to attend. |
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Post by JEEPSTER2000 on Mar 9, 2003 21:11:07 GMT -5
Now i have a question. O do not have any tow hooks on my TJ but do have long oval shaped holes in my frame. I have a tow strap with hooks on it. I have just always put my straps hook in those wholes. Do most SUV's frames not have those holes? If so are these not good to use to pull on?
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Post by manhattanjeep on Mar 9, 2003 21:28:36 GMT -5
I am not sure the holes that you are talking about, but if you talk to Jim Henson, he will be able to tell you a good reason not to use the holes in the frame or the crossmember. He was being winched by one of these and the winch ripped through the side, and sent the cable flying. As for the tow strap with hooks, we try to avoid them at all costs, because if they break, then there is a good chance of shrapnel. Imagine a jeep going 15 miles an hour, hitting the end of the strap, the hook coming loose and now you have a projectile with a slingshot type effect. A strap with loops and tow hooks firmly bolted to the frame is the best option. Other options would be bumper mounted shackles, that are on a solid bumper mounted solidly to the frame with appropriately sized Grade 5 or 8 bolts. Another option is a receiver shackle.
JEremy
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Post by rob83cj8 on Mar 9, 2003 21:34:27 GMT -5
While the holes do work, I have seen tow hooks literally rip the frame when attached there. I REALLY discourage the use of straps with hooks on them. They are death waiting to happen because when that hook breaks it will kill someone. I wish I could find a picture that was published in an off-road mag several years ago. A guy was using a strap with metal hooks to recover a stuck vehicle, the hook that was attached to the vehicle being recovered broke and went through the back window of the jeep doing the pulling, through the drivers side headrest, through the windshield, and ended up on the ground underneath the front drivers side tire. The only thing that kept the driver of the jeep doing the pulling from being killed was the fact that he was looking back over his left shoulder and the remainder of the hook on the end of the strap just grazed the back of his head. It still landed him in the hospital in critical condition. If a quality strap with looped ends breaks and hits you, you'll probably end up with a nasty bruise, a much better option. Life is to precious to save a few bucks and buy a cheap, dangerous strap. Spend a little more for a quality strap, secure tow points and peace of mind.
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Post by rob83cj8 on Mar 9, 2003 21:59:08 GMT -5
Here is a thought. Could we maybe have a few tow hooks on hand, and a cordless drill to install them before the trail ride. minutes to install. Just a thought. Jeremy Not a bad idea, but, if we install them on someones rig and something does happen on the trail that opens a big can of liability worms. I think that would be a liability risk that the club doesn't need to take. I still think that on the easy trail it should be recommended equipment, not required. Plus, if they are informed of this and choose not to have tow points and need to be towed, they've just learned their lesson the hard way and won't soon forget it. |
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Post by bluexj89 on Mar 9, 2003 22:12:06 GMT -5
I agree with Robin on the liability issue. Even with the waiver we will have the club can be sued.  Gotta love our judicial system. Will we win probably but that will still cost major $$$ Wich I or the club doesn't have. I couldn't imagine if we added tow hooks to someones vehicle and some one got hurt because of something happening. Mark |
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Post by bill1986K5 on Mar 9, 2003 22:29:51 GMT -5
I agree with rob also...If they know of the KK coming up, and read over everything then they should have everything done by then...
As for me having no roll bar for now..Am i going to be able to have my top off, im really wanting to go topless all through summer..
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Post by bluexj89 on Mar 9, 2003 22:36:33 GMT -5
The way I see it is you still have a factory hard top on. But I think the factory rear hoops are fairly easy to find.
Mark
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Post by rob83cj8 on Mar 9, 2003 22:44:30 GMT -5
I'm with Mark, since your's doesn't come off all the way to the windshield I think you'll be fine, there's still a factory top in place even with the rear section removed.
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mike4x4neb
Full Member
Gotta Love a Fullsize on Rocks!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 180
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Post by mike4x4neb on Aug 9, 2003 21:44:58 GMT -5
ive got an Idea for those with stock vehicles with no tow points. They make a KEY that you can buy that fits into factory holes in the frame. If we had one of these keys for the Stock trail leader to carry we should be ok. I think this is a better Idea than turning people away.
Mike
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Post by rob83cj8 on Aug 10, 2003 18:33:33 GMT -5
Got a pic or a link to it Mike? I have no idea what you're talking about  |
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mike4x4neb
Full Member
Gotta Love a Fullsize on Rocks!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 180
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Post by mike4x4neb on Aug 10, 2003 19:30:05 GMT -5
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Post by rob83cj8 on Aug 10, 2003 21:11:35 GMT -5
O.K., now I understand  but how do you know which of the 3 you need or is it a one set fits all kind of a deal? |
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mike4x4neb
Full Member
Gotta Love a Fullsize on Rocks!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 180
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Post by mike4x4neb on Aug 10, 2003 22:00:14 GMT -5
yea pretty much a all in one type deal. plus I think that with the stockers that they probably wont be getting so stuck that its very hard to get them out. So I think that one of these tools would do the trick. I think I know of a place here in lincoln that carries them so next week when I get paid im going to go and try and find one and buy it so that weve got one on hand. If I cant find one ill let you know and we can discuss ordering one online.
Mike
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Post by rob83cj8 on Aug 10, 2003 22:16:49 GMT -5
That works for me.
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Gotta love our judicial system. Will we win probably but that will still cost major $$$ Wich I or the club doesn't have. I couldn't imagine if we added tow hooks to someones vehicle and some one got hurt because of something happening.
but how do you know which of the 3 you need or is it a one set fits all kind of a deal?